March 21, 2003

Iraqi people can smell freedom

Posted: March 21, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

On the eve of the U.S.-led assault on Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, a New York Times reporter in Baghdad had an epiphany of sorts.

In an interview with PBS, John Burns reported from the Iraqi capital city that Iraqis are now speaking out not just in hushed tones and whispers about how they welcome the impending invasion.

They see the military action as their moment of liberation, he said.

"Many, many Iraqis are telling us now not always in the whispers we only heard in the past, but now in quite candid conversations that they are waiting for America to come and bring them liberty," he said in an interview on "PBS News Hour" Wednesday night.

"Along with all of this apprehension," said Burns, "Americans should know that there also is a good deal of anticipation. Iraqis have suffered beyond, I think, the common understanding in the United States from the repression of the past 30 years."

PBS's Gwen Ifill asked Burns to clarify: "They are actually eagerly anticipating war?"

"It's very hard for anybody to understand this," he said. "It can only be understood in terms of the depth of repression here."

Burns said that, of course, there are people who don't want war out of loyalty to the regime, or out of fear or out of "suspicion of America's motives." Because of the closed nature of Iraqi society, we cannot know how numerous either side is, he said.

"All I can tell you and every reporter who is here will attest this is that the most extraordinary experience of the last few days has been a sudden breaking of the ice here," said Burns, "with people from every corner of life coming forward to tell us that they understand what America is about in this."

Burns said the people naturally are fearful of errant bombing, damage to Iraq's infrastructure and what kind of government might come after Saddam is gone.

"Can I just say," Burns stated, after Ifill tried to interrupt, "there is absolutely no doubt, no doubt, that there are many, many Iraqis who see what is about to happen here as their moment of liberation."

Hard to understand? I don't know why it is hard to understand.

I believe there is almost a kind of racism in the establishment press and in some circles of the U.S. State Department underlying the assumption that Arabic-speaking people don't want freedom, that they can't handle it, that they need brutal dictators directing them, that they are somehow incapable of aspirations for a better life and knowing right from wrong.

I'm grateful for the report from Burns, but why is anyone surprised about this?

Were we surprised when the people of France were happy about their liberation in 1945?

Were we surprised when the people of Italy were liberated by Allied troops in World War II?

Were we surprised when other people in Europe were liberated from Nazi occupation?

That's the same kind of oppression and brutality the Iraqi people have been enduring for more than 20 years.

I'm not surprised. Nor was I surprised when the people of Afghanistan welcomed liberators last year. I wasn't surprised when the people of Kuwait welcomed liberators in 1991. And I won't be surprised when the people of Iraq celebrate liberation in a few days or weeks.

People all over the world want to be free.

I appreciate the report by Burns and carried by PBS, but maybe the folks at PBS and the New York Times should get out more. Maybe they should read something other than their own editorials. Maybe they should listen to some other radio networks.

Yes, it's time to free Iraq. It's not only the right thing to do for the security of our country. It's the right thing to do for the Iraqi people.

Full Story HERE

Posted by Muddy at March 21, 2003 02:14 PM | TrackBack


A comparrison for you to consider...

Excerpts from the Shock and Awe text:

Shock and Awe are actions that create fears, dangers, and destruction that are incomprehensible to the people at large, specific elements/sectors of the threat society, or the leadership. Nature in the form of tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, uncontrolled fires, famine, and disease can engender Shock and Awe. The ultimate military application of Shock and Awe was the use of two atomic weapons against Japan in WW II. (Appendix A) would be vitally important to give the appearance that there are no safe havens from attack, and that any target may be attacked at any time with impunity and force. (Chapter 4)

And two excerpts from dictionaries:


n : the systematic use of violence as a means to intimidate or coerce societies or governments

(WordNet 1.6, 1997 Princeton University)


n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons

(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

Posted by: Les at March 21, 2003 03:17 PM

Umm, Okay? So we're trying to coerce a government into surrendering. That's kind of part of war.

I bring you General Patton:
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to try to make the other ba----d die for his!"

How is it unlawful though? Systematic I'll concede.

Posted by: skywalker at March 21, 2003 04:13 PM

Because you did not work within the confines of the UN.

1. The US admits the Iraq is not only a security threat to its own country but also an "international" tyrant that must be put away.

2. If Iraq is not only a US threat but also an international threat,why not deal with it within an international arena.

But it is alright. I hope the US does leave the UN.For the sake of the UN.

Posted by: Les at March 21, 2003 04:16 PM

General Patton:
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to try to make the other ba----d die for his!"

And who is the other bastard. The Iraqis in general or their leader?

Posted by: Les at March 21, 2003 04:17 PM

Erika, I had hoped you would be happy for the freedom these Iraqi people enjoy now. oh well...

Posted by: Muddy at March 21, 2003 04:47 PM

The other bastard is the military. Our targets have all been military.

I'm sorry but if you can't read the UN resolutions and see we were well within the confines of the UN then you're not worth further discussion with on any matter. Not to mention that if we are threatened I see no reason to not immediately act within our interests of security.

I hope we leave the UN, for our sake. Course, if we leave the UN, the UN will crumble.

Posted by: skywalker at March 21, 2003 05:06 PM

Of course les, I believe you hate freedom. You say you don't. If that is true, why don't you want the Iraqi people to be free?

One more thing. Admit it to me: your father was never a Marine. Unless of course your father is Ron Kovic but I somehow doubt that.

Posted by: skywalker at March 21, 2003 05:08 PM

Muddy! So what ever happened to my post? Did you ban it? What was wrong? Afraid that I was "Les". Sorry, but no. I am BrewGuru99. Your IP log isn't sufficient to account for multiple people living in the same house using the same dialup and showing eachother the same website. I believe my demonstratoin on the proper way to compose an argument goes far in demonstrating how ignorant some of the people on this site are.

Please post my post.

Posted by: BrewGuru99 at March 21, 2003 06:03 PM

Multiple names, and a whole host of bogus emails I could only assume it was Erika/Les/Elliot and the other names being used from that account. So how many people are using that account?

Also I did not delete the post. I changed the name to Les as I believed it was one of her many aliases.

If you can let me know who is actually posting, I'll not change those names to Les.

Posted by: Muddy at March 21, 2003 06:10 PM

If the post is under my name then it is me, otherwise it is Les.

Posted by: BrewGuru99 at March 21, 2003 06:32 PM

I am happy. I just have to confirm it for myself that the Iraqis are happy too.

As for the posts ...ther is my husband.
And the UCR posts, I have a few friends who like your site as well and since we are in the SAME computer lab...of course our IP addresses coincide.

Posted by: Les at March 21, 2003 07:00 PM

No worries m8, just wanted to be sure I gave everyone their voice.

Elliot or BrewGuru if you know where your post was I changed I put it back, I just don't remember which on it was.

Posted by: Muddy at March 21, 2003 07:07 PM

You Iraqis smell freedom and the noxious odor of oil burning....all that natural resource going to complete waste, creating a giant hole in the atmosphere.....Damn he's an idiot.....those wells weren't suppose to burn
"Iraq doesn't burn its oil...."
Saddam / Rather interview

Posted by: BP Doja at March 21, 2003 07:49 PM

I am really proud of MTV for not bearing left on the war they normally do about most issues....they are actually spending a lot of time showing all sides of this war....its really refreshing to see that at least they can allow viewers to formulate their own detected bias found as I watch.

Posted by: BP Doja at March 21, 2003 07:52 PM

You know, our bombs sure are making an atmospheric stink too. I wonder if the UN will assist in rebuilding that along with the cities?
What if Iraq becomes the first biodome city post-war....what if Michael Jackson buys Iraq and renames it IrakaJack.....I'd expatriate there....

Posted by: BP Doja at March 21, 2003 07:57 PM

Thats nice. wouldn.t know. don't like tv and find mtv rather stupid.
found this of interest in BBC international
"Meanwhile, in the north Turkish troops were reported to have crossed into Iraq - despite Washington's disapproval of such a move.

It came soon after Turkey agreed to open its airspace to US warplanes."

"You know, our bombs sure are making an atmospheric stink too. I wonder if the UN will assist in rebuilding that along with the cities?
What if Iraq becomes the first biodome city post-war...." Now that's an idea.

Posted by: Les at March 21, 2003 08:01 PM

Well, things seem to be going smoothly for the US UK and others troops.

Many Irakis surrender, desert, Kurds are ready to move south, turks, may not send their 1500 troops At least it is still undone. Saddam may be dead.

Another historical exemple comes to my mind. Algeria police operations by the French 1954-1962.

At the time the french army had won control of Algeria... By quite illegal means (torture as a rule) ... But political opposition from the public opinion led to france leaving Algeria...

THe same process may happen here. Kurds my fight turk, algerians and pakistani may throw away their governments .... Some countries may call for a UNO world assembly that will ask the USA and allies to stop their unlawful agression ...
And then what .?

PS I d like to hear how skywalker is a libertarian, I've not seen this till now.
May be because of the issues at stake.

To me libertarians would be by essence internationalists, they would oppose many of the security laws passed recently in the USA...

Posted by: definitelyfrench at March 22, 2003 02:11 PM

French: Essentially, my basic political philosophy (simplified) is that I do not want the federal government to be in my life any more than necesary. I believe in limited federal government, leaving the majority of government to the local level. In accoordance with this, yes i do oppose many of those such laws. I do however believe it is part of the federal government's job to provide for my security to the best of its ability without invading my privacy.

I'm against an income tax (I'm not against taxes however), I'm against the war on drugs, I'm against anti-gambling laws, I'm again anti-prostitution laws. At least on the federal level.

Posted by: skywalker at March 22, 2003 02:23 PM

"One more thing. Admit it to me: your father was never a Marine. Unless of course your father is Ron Kovic but I somehow doubt that"

Recon Marine, 1969-1972
He was in S.Carolina then off to Vietnam where he only faoght for a while because he and his group ran into some trouble. I Know my father was a marine and when it comes to who kicks more ass...amarine does over navy, army and aiforce any day.

Doe sit threaten you that my dad is a marine and ACCEPts his daughter thea and her beliefs?
Yes, we argue very very much but the bottomline is that I am his kid and we love eachother despite ideological differences.

I want the Iraqis to be happy, This will turn out to be another short campaign and we will be back home soon I bet, except for the military left behind. I am glad. My best friends fiancee will not have to go then.
And the civillian death will be low.
Although not equal to the deaths of soldiers.

Hopefully one day you realize that government is not the small just entity you believe it to be.

YOu think we never sold arms to the MId east?
You think I am naive?

At least I hold it as a possibiblity and will never run blindly towards pro patria mori.

Posted by: Les at March 22, 2003 05:28 PM

haha.. nice refute Les.
I believe we have sold many many bad things to equally bad governments... it was wrong, however we know about 40-50% of the evil our government has done.

I think if the government was an open book and we had full access to everything they did... we'd be shocked for the most part.

Our government is shady man, it's nothing like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and the rest planned for it to be. Also it's a Republic, I've no idea why people keep calling it a Democracy.

Democracy is : democracy in which the power is exercised directly by the people rather than through representatives

Republic is : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

Posted by: Muddy at March 22, 2003 07:56 PM

I know we are a Republic. But then why does our government use the excuse that we are waging this war to "presserve our democracy'
We are not. We would be shocked to know all our governments actions but then why claim that we are a government "for the people and by the people". But it would be a lesson. I see so many blindly following everything. If it not television, it is a name brand, a movie, an MTV, something which to me is riduculously absurd. Our country which ws once a forum for ingenuity and great thinkers has turned into a mass of unthinking "individuals". Strife I believe can cause a flourish of creativity. Most of the great works of art, both in written and visual are the aftermaths of these moments of strife.

Posted by: Les at March 22, 2003 10:17 PM

"But then why does our government use the excuse that we are waging this war to "presserve our democracy'"

uh... because their dumb... you knew that.

As to the rest, I really can't disagree with it.

This nation has turned from it's creative thinking and bold genius to couch potato. Sad really.

Posted by: Muddy at March 22, 2003 10:24 PM

Then one must change it and stop being a couch potato.

There is no excuse for this.

Posted by: Les at March 23, 2003 02:58 AM

It's funny, and it's not.
Here in France, most of the Irakis interviewed say They are against american intervention

that they want to fight the usa, will defend saddam even though they don't like him because nobody should come and rule your own house...

I wonder how come you have differend news in the USA. No... I wonder how it is possible that the news are SO different.

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