May 13, 2003
Question about Micahel Moore
While Michael Moore is a disgrace to the nation for his tantrums and some of his obvious expose work that he calls a documentary I am curious to know what people on this site think about comments such as...
"I can't believe that the police have not arrested Michael Moore yet for subverting the Bush Administration and speaking out against it?"
"The word is spreading fast. Emails, faxes, chat rooms, message boards, letters, talk shows, radio. It's starting to roll. The media has been informed. For Disney to fund Michael Moore's next film is the single most anti-American act ever done by a US corporation. It demands action and it will sink Disney!"
Is a business funding a project like Moore's new "documentary" really an anti-American act?
I don't agree with Mr. Moore in the least. I think he is a moron...I always have. That being said I am concerned that with two movements (PC and FAR RIGHT) so ignorant of what we as Americans actually have the right to say, so and believe that it is only a matter of time until one of the two wins and the other side is subjected to a McCarthy like lynching by the other based on their ideals.
Read more in this article on CBS
Posted by at May 13, 2003 11:25 AM
Well as much as I disrespect Michael Moore he does still have a right to say exactly what he wants. I think that he should eat another twinkie and shut up. But he still has a right to free speech.
As far a Disney is concerned I am not suprised. I dont know if most people know this but Walt Disney himself was dishonerable discharged from the Marine Corps for malingering. If you watch the early Disney movies, where he spoke in the begining, you can see his discharge papers in a frame upside down in the background.
Michael Moore is an example of what makes America a great country. This country needs people to challenge the conventional view and to raise questions that most others would not dare. Not using this freedom is a terrible prospect.
The freedom that he avails himself of is potent. Some are poisoned by it and use it as an addict uses drugs.
It's a shame that he has gone so far that he lost his crediblity. I hope that we will soon see someone else rise and become an effective, credible voice of dissent.
Those who seek his arrest for "speaking out against the Bush Administration" need to take a sick day and read the U.S. Constitution. Perhaps they would be happier in China. I take a bit of offense at the disinformation and flag-waving propagated by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et al. Does that mean they should be arrested because they don't support my own opinion?? Sick.
The Disney issue is worthless too. Mike Eisner is running Uncle Walt's company straight into the ground all by his own small-minded self. He doesn't need Michael Moore's help to do that.
Michael Moore president !
Ok, 1st, I have to admit...I didn't even KNOW who Michael Moore was until I saw a clip of that award show he was on where he vented about the President. So as far as me coming out saying that I don't like him, I don't think I have a lot of information "straight from the horses mouth" that is, to make FULL judgement on character.
However, What I have heard from others so far HAS painted Michael Moore in my mind as the makings of a great modern day moron. But, yes, that is partly what America and Her Constitution is all about...to say what you want to say...even if you are a complete brainless, idiotic moron. Basically, my feeling is...hey, say something stupid on my t.v. - fine....say something offensive over my radio - okay...write something completely disgusting in my local paper - go for it...get in my face and spew offensive words at me - hey, whatever makes you happy...you have the right to do just that under the constitution....BUT I have rights too so don't be surprised when I turn the T.V channel and turn that radio dial or throw that newspaper away or even when I just WALK away and ignore your stupid a** because that's just some of the many ways I practice MY freedom. God, I love this Country - even if we DO have alot of stupid people:)
Why must it always be that the opposite opinion is the "wrong" opinion. There are many things I like about America, but that is something you don't get in Germany, Argentina, France, etc. where it is "okay" to have a different opinion. You have the TV stations airing these different opinions and there is a consistent dialogue that is shared between people of different creeds and ideologies. Here it is either black or white, good or bad, nothing grey or complex when we are dealing with something very complex. When a democrat is in power everyone bashes republicans and vice versa.
There has to be a degree of moral relativism, the understanding that what is good for me may not work for you. Maybe it is easier for me to say this than many other Americans, many of them my friends, who know nothing but this country.
There is something "free" about walking on a land not "yours" by no legal standard, a culture where you have no say, where one can just watch and learn. This is utmost freedom TO ME. But that is because I see this earth as belonging to everyone not just Americans or Russians or whomever, I have no "loyalty" to a "flag" that is just an "idea" and quite a constrictive one at that. I like to be capable of taking this from that culture and this from another without being seen as a traitor or a dissenter.
It is good you practice your freedom by "turning the dial". I practice my freedom by not having a dial to turn and that doesnt't bother me.
had some time to kill. Those are my 2 cents.
Hi im from Britain and after scouring anti michael moore sites after just finishing his book, I was shocked that so many people wanted to lynch him! He is a true patriot in my view, some one who will risk money and reputation on what they beleive is right for their country. And as for free speach most of michael's work was financed by the BBC and our channel Four, and his book supported by british newspapers,when american publishers were trying to force censure. Briton the real land of the free!
Relieved Briton, you guys can have him... where shall we ship him too?
Actually the trend is to ship from the Old world to the New. Misfits, convicts, adventurers and religious fanatics, the mix hasn't really changed much has it?
Ah yes ol' chap I see your point. Sort of like when the British shipped off their convicts, murders and unwanted fellows to some quaint island called Australia?
Yes, better option than killing children.
except that all or most of america's great writers/poets shipped themselves off to france...one of them, Sir TS Eliot even became a british subject...ahhh, 2 more years and I'll either be a canadian expat or a british..if I.m lucky I will end up in university in France!
"heaven, I.m in heaven, and "
Yes, that is true. The most talented americans leave as soon as possible, what could be their reason?
I agree Michael Moore has the right to free speech, especially in an articulte and well researched way. On the other hand, why must a company feel obligated to pay for his movie just to fulfill this right? Maybe it's just a sound business decision? MAYBE this is in response to the major loss of income they have been suffering in recent years. Let Moore pay for his own movie if no one else will! He wouldn't be the first (although I suspect there are plenty of other companies out there ready to pick it up.) If I owned my own movie company, woule I go bankrupt distributing every crappy m,ovie someone made just because they had a right to do so? I'd sure hope not.
Well said. It was revealed the other day that disney told him they would not distribute it when he was making it. This whole story about them just now saying it was a stunt to get free publicity. Which he has admitted.
Michael Moore is your basic run of the mill IDIOT. He's somewhere to the left of Lenin.
Free speech is a protection of what you say by the law from the law. It does not guarantee you a vehicle for that speech or protect that speech from other people blocking it.
His publicity stunt isn't all that cute.
"Free speech is a protection of what you say by the law from the law. It does not guarantee you a vehicle for that speech or protect that speech from other people blocking it."
Ahhh! Excelent point, my dear! I say...give 'em his damn platform. No one - who is worth their intelligence, that is - even *listens* to him anyway. But, that's MHO.
If it was only that easy. People DO listen to him. If you don't agree with him, or like his opinion being representative of your company, don't give him a platform. Disney didn't want a movie that would be making a political statement, much less an ultra-controversial political statement because they know it will mean a loss of $$ for them, so they didn't give him the platform. It's capitalism at work.
"People DO listen to him."
Yes, I realize that. But I believe my comment was:
"No one - ***who is worth their intelligence***, that is - even *listens* to him anyway."
"Disney didn't want a movie......it will mean a loss of $$ for them, so they didn't give him the platform."
My basic personal point was that since I believe Michael Moore is a wind bag and I *know* he's idiot (and therefore I don't take *anything* he says seriously), then I don't care if he gets a "platform" or not. I believe he is one of the many people in the world for whom the statement..."It is better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"...was made.
here;s the things though, stupid people can vote too.
"stupid people can vote too."
haha. Ah, touche!:-) They can also procreate as well (which I'm *still* trying to figure out how we can stop that one without infringing on their rights....any ideas?). Of course, what one person considers "stupidity" is what another person considers "genius". I'm sure there are quite a few people out there who've read this site who swear that *I'm* an idiot when in fact, I'm just "sanely challenged".:-P It always depends on your definition.
I have no problem with stupid people procreating (someone has to flip burgers..) Plus, that gets into Nazi territory there.
I have a problem with them voting. The constitution only says we can't stop people from voting based on age sex or race. I see no problem with not letting people on welfare vote. I see no problem with giving people a test of BASIC government knowledge and BASIC US History before they can vote. I mean really, if you can't name your current senators and congressman or tell me when the declaration of independence was signed, why should you be allowed to vote? As for welfare folks voting, that's like letting the insane run the asylum.
"I see no problem with not letting people on welfare vote."
Just because you may need a little help from the government every now and then doesn't mean you have no intellegence to make a proper decisions on electing officials, or voting on/for leveys or laws. It just means you're poor/broke/layed off...ect. Remember, Muddy and I were on WIC for a while not to mention our eldest and I were also on medicade too. Did that make us stupid or ignorant to what was going around us simply because we needed governmental help? Granted, we *did* put ourselves there by our own stupid, premature choices, BUT we realized that and worked to make things better......but that's beside the point. I know there *are* people on welfare, WIC and other forms of help who *are* lazy and don't know the meaning of work (nor do they know the meaning of birth control nor abstinence)....but how would you dig through all the muck to weed them out anyway?
Besides, ask me on any given day who my senators and congressman are, and *I* have to think about it for a minute. Even then I can only name a few. I think because, number one, I have a hard time retaining certain types of information. But mostly because nobody (politicians) impresses me *that* much around here to deserve "rememberance" of who they are anyway. Different name, different faces, yet ironically....same crap - different day. Does that mean *I* should have my right to vote revoked?
I understand what you're saying....if we're going to vote, we should know what and who we're voting for. But as much as I would *love* to stop some people from voting, where would you stop? Would you also include people who are mentally disabled. and people with learning disabilities too?
it has nothing to do with intelligence, it is called letting the insane run the asylum. Why let people (who 90% of the time are lazy, very few people on welfare are getting it because they just needed a little help temprarily, i have first hand experienc ein this area.)
But why should politicians be vying for the vote of people who are generally mooching off the government?
WIC and medicaid are not what I'm talking about either. My mom got wic for years. I'm talking about AFDC checks...the dole...where the government rights youa check for not working.
MY congressman: REp. Phil Gingrey (R), 11th District Georgia. My senators ae Zell Miller (D) Georgia, and Saxby Chambliss (R) Georgia. It is three names. I couldn't tell you my state senator or representativ ehwoever but that's because they are forever giving me a new district so i never know who it is.
People whoa re mentally disabled who are declared mentally incompetent are not allowed to vote already.
All i said was people who don't know very basic facts. I don't think it is to much to ask someone to go look up who their senators and congressman are before they drive down to the polls.
"People whoa re mentally disabled who are declared mentally incompetent are not allowed to vote already."
Actually, the most embarrasing part about your response to me is that I know you're right. However, It took *your* responding to my statement:
"Would you also include people who are mentally disabled..."
Before I realized what *I* had actually said. Yes, It's been THAT kind of a day. Truth be known, (and the reason I feel so stupid in what I said) I actually *have* a cousin who has Ceribal Palsy. Intellegence wise, she's about 8 or 9; emotionally, she's more like 12 (she's developed an attitude to go along with it too). Biologically, however, she's 31 - and will most likely not get much better. So, yes folks, that was mrs. muddy's "DUH" momment of the day.
"All i said was people who don't know very basic facts. I don't think it is to much to ask..."
No, it's not too much to ask. Quite frankly, there have been times in the past when so much has been going on in my life that I didn't know about the local candidates very well *to* make a proper and fair decision. It was in those times that I didn't go to the polls at all. Not that I'm proud of that but...
"But why should politicians be vying for the vote of people who are generally mooching off the government?"
I understand what you're saying and true, most of them *shouldn't* have that right. BUT again, for the people who AREN'T taking advantage of the system (as few as they may be), it wouldn't exactly be fair to them to say, "ok, because you're on welfare right now, you have to be punished with the rest. No voting for you". Who knows maybe this is the kind of "reform" we need? :-P
"MY congressman: REp. Phil Gingrey...."
Like i said it is letting the insane run the asylum. There are many MANY situations where a small minority gets screwed due to a majority's actions.
"Like i said it is letting the insane run the asylum."
No argument there.
"There are many MANY situations where a small minority gets screwed due to a majority's actions."
Yes, yes. Very true.....but that doesn't mean it makes it "ok".
He can say whatever he wants. As an American citizen he has that right just like the rest of us. But I am discusted with his rhetoric and would like to see him lose the money he spent to make this new "documentary."
I started an email to get people to boycott him film, and the same message is located in my message board. http://dark---angel.com/cutecast/cutecast.pl?session=AxTE0W9IPxsGe9r9PqqhLr34Uw&forum=11&thread=35 If you want people to boycott his film too please tell your friends and family and keep it going. I'm not looking for hits on my site... I don't care if you send anyone to my page. All I want is people to take action and -NOT- go see his movie. it would be cool to hear that he didnt so much as break even on his overhead.
Jim: You're right, he has EVERY right to say it. In fact I've taken an oath 3 tims now to defend that right to the death and I will continue to take that oath until I leave the Marine Corps for civilian life sometime int he distant future (Prolly when I'm 39.)
I'm glad someone has takent he time to take a stand. I'm going to try to get muddy to put a big link up for the "Michael Moore HAtes America" website. I will probably go see the movie, but only because I have friends at the movie theater who will occassionally let me in for free so I won't have to pay any money for it. Plus I feel like I need to see it so that I can intelligently comment on it. ( Something I consider somewhat of a responsibility at this point.)
I live right here in the middle of "Michael Mooresville" and I think that he should be congratulated for saying what bothers him about this administration. A more crooked one hasn't been seen in years. And now the "people have spoken"! So truly scary for America. This country is going backwards instead of forward. 4 more years - what a nightmare! A set of Supremes to be named and the end of Roe v Wade. And what next? A dark day for America.
So it wasn't crooked to lie underoath and commit the same crimes for which Nixon was nearly impeached and resigned over? Look, if the supreme court had all pro-life justices, roe vs. wade wouldn't be overturned. It won't happen. It should happen, but it won't
Dark day? The darkest day in our history was the day we ratified the 21st amendment. Today is nothing.
smawol, There are other alternative places to live. You should check them out, I heard that China is nice this time of year. Oh yea thats right, you would be put in prison for your comments there...
So maybe France would suit you better. But they dont bath....
You should probably move to Canada. Let me know how that turns out.