muddysmind.com

Why we tolerate these so call humans is beyond my understanding. How about we get rid of the mass amount of Mk82 and Mk84 dumb bombs and just have some fun carpet bombing these fine folks?

Because we're better than them. That's why Marines in Fallujah were going out of their way and taking casualties to save civilian lives. That's why when 2/5 rolls past a mosque and gets shot at, they only shoot back and don't order an airstrike.

we're not talking about innocent people bro, we're talking about people with no regard for human life.
No reason to hold back.

Ok, two things:

"Iraqi police stood by helplessly - unable to control the crowd only weeks before they are to assume more security responsibility under the U.S. exit strategy."

It really concerns me that the Iraqi police *seem* to be unable to hold down the fort. Maybe the picture is being painted to make it look like that?

2ndly: I REFUSE to believe (although this is indeed a horrible incident) that *this* situation is the "norm" for EVERY single square mile in Iraq. There has GOT to be more than THIS. SOMEONE help me out here!

Because we're better than them. That's why Marines in Fallujah were going out of their way and taking casualties to save civilian lives. That's why when 2/5 rolls past a mosque and gets shot at, they only shoot back and don't order an airstrike.

Posted by: skywalker at June 14, 2004 07:31 PM

It seems these people want the US troops to leave. That's basically their point. In so wanting they are of course disrespecting the deaths of their ennemies ... The public rejoicing is not decent, proper. But it is only logical to hope your ennemy in war will die.

Now the main reason for the USA not to bomb these people is that the USA are there, officially at least to help irakis build democracy...
It cannot bomb the people it is supposed to free.

Aside from that :
you could read this
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_15.pdf

the official independant commission on 911
writes, down on page 5, last line of fourth paragraph :
"We have no credible evidence that Iraq and Al qaeda cooperated on attacks against the united states."

But may be of course skywalker knows better from his relations within the army :-)

I'm so kind ... For more info on how the iraqi people feel :
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217874/site/newsweek/
More than 80 % distrust the coalition. And this number has been on the up side since 2003

Most back Saadr
Most do not trust the recently appointed head of the Iraqi gvt ...

But like some of you posted ... Winning the hearts and mind is not your priority any way

First off, I have very few connections with the army. About 80% of mine are Marines. I have a hint of distrust of soldiers, I've dealt with enough of them not to want to trust them. Sailors and Airmen I find easy to pick on, but I at least trust them. But I take anything I get from a member of the Army with a grain of salt. If a Marine tells me something, I generally take it as gospel. When a Sailor or Airman tells me something I compare it with what I know to be true and judge it that way...unless it is someone I know really well which is only a couple people.

Second, I never said they colluded on attacks on us. I do not now, nor have I ever believe that Iraq had anyhting to do with 9/11. I said they have a connection. And they do! A big wig with Al-Quaeda is in Fallujah right now and had been in country since before the war began. They had been meeting with Iraqi officials long before the war.

DF, you're right about them wanting us to leave. The people in that area have been put through hell by their own people - and those people are doing it because they no longer have absolute power as they did under Saddam...or they're terrorists who just want to hurt the US...there is a little bit of both going on.

I guarantee you this though. If you ask any Iraqi who is not an insurgent, behind closed doors and face to face, he'll probably thank you (as their new prime minister has and many civilians, some of whom have recently risked their lives turn in insurgents - including a 14 year old boy who turned his father in to some Marines.) But ask them in public they're probably to afraid of insurgents to say they are glad we are there. That's not mentioning that for 3 years under the Ba'athists, opposition to the government meant a bullet! These people don't know how to dissent.

Maybe I should say this: I have compassion for the Iraqi people and I want them to live in freedom. That's why we should continue to show restraint even at the risk of my fellow Marines, and our soldiers, airmen and sailoers - compassion. The great experiment of personal and economic liberty should not be limited to the US or Europe. The Iraqi's should have a chance to experience this too. In fact, everyone should. I feel personal sorrow for anyone who isn't free to read the words of their country's version of Michael Moore or for that matter Thomas Paine. It is a sad thing. Freedom is something that everyone here has taken for granted. Myself included. And if Americans have to continue to die, to insure that Iraqi's have so much as a chance at that, then so be it. They deserve that chance.

i did not know the marines were not part of the army

I take note on you saying Irak is not related to 9/11 ... The thing is the present US administration has made the link in several occasions.
Most important I agree with you that the Iraqi should have the chance to get a democracy. By the way, the recent polls show the population still ask the coalition to stay until a government is elected ...
This is precisely on the success of that democratic path that the USA will be judged.
The problem will always remain the same though ...
If Iraq becomes a democratic country it will elect a government which will oppose to the USA ...
Reason being ? US support for the illegal occupation of palestinians territory by israel ...
The other reason might be, the US support for some non democratic arab regimes : egypt and Saoudi arabia ...

So it really is a tough job for the USA : build a democracy and help rebuild a country which be one of its ennemies ...

Hopefully though, Iraq will remain a moderate ennemy and Peace may come in the middle east

I've never heard the administration say IRaq participated in 9/11...if they have however, I blanketly reject that idea as false. While I believe Saddam was in someway colluding with al-quaeda, I do not believe they were on 9/11.

You're right. It is a tough thing to do. Though, I don't think Iraq will HAVE to be an enemy. That is probably to strong of an assumption. I think anyone with any worthwhile leadership skills will probably be very friendly towards us.

Polls say alot of things, you can take the same poll 50 times a week in Iraq and get such varying results that most polls are worthless to be honest. I keep track of them though...but...like I said...mostly worthless.

Technically, the Marines fall under the Department of the Navy, and we are in the charge of the Secretary of the Navy (last time I checked, the honorable Mr. England, but it has changed at least 3 times since I've been in so who knows haha!) but we are our own branch of service. Really we could be called the tip of the spear. We do our own close air support, we lead all invasions we guard navy ships, Embassies, the white house. The mission of the navy is to support MArine invasions. The mission of the army is to support the Marines and occupy land captured by the Marines. Themission of the air force is to support the army and do pre invasion bombing to assist Marine invasions. A MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) would be the equivalent in training and skills to an Army Ranger battallion. We have our own special forces element (Force Recon) and our highest non-special forces element is nearly equivelant ins kills and training to Green Berets (Recon Marines.) We have vastly different uniforms, a vastly different rank and promotion structure (50% of the Marine Corps is of grades E-1 to E-3, which are our non-NCO ranks) and a very rich tradition and history - much of which includes overcoming unbelievable odds and surviving when we were told it would be impossible to do so. You call a member of the Navy a Sailor, a member of the Army a Soldier and the member of the Air Force an Airman.

I guess that's your culture lesson for the day df? :-)

There is plenty of basic history which you can find on the internet about the Marine Corps, some of which will interest you I'm sure. All Marines are required to know quite a bit of history about the service, so cwilli would know just as much if not more than me (he is a former-Marine.)

You would also be interested to know that despite a reputation for being stupid (Seriously, many people think that you would join the Marines because you can't read), Marines test out to have the highest average intelligence of any branch of service. We also invented 3 of the 4 types of warfare invented during the 20th century - the Germans invented and tested the 4th method out on your country.