muddysmind.com

None of this even mentions the fact that he's a prison guard in civilian life. He whines that he didn't get special training on how to treat military prisoners. The what did you do at your MOS school? Is this how he treats civilian prisoners? He says he didn't know who was in charge. Someone should clue him in that as a Staff NCO, he was in charge.

"Another issue is this guy says "Junior soldiers" had conflicting demands placed on them. First off, this guy is a staff non-comissioned officer in the United States Army."

OK...you'll have to forgive me but what is the difference between a "junior soldier" and a "staff non-comissioned" soldier?

"None of this even mentions the fact that he's a prison guard in civilian life."

Actually, near the end of the article it does state the fact that he's a "prison official" which is how *they* put it.

A junior soldier would be E-1 to E-3 (or in some cases E-4.) These are what are called non-rates and technically can not hold a leadership position. (The Marine Corps' bottom heavy rank structure tends to prevent this and E-3s will sometimes hold squad leader billets and some other leadership billets.)

I meant none of what I said mentions that he's a prison guard.

Oh, and a Staff Sergeant is an E-6, enlist men top out at E-9 which is a Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major for the Army's purposes.

Gotcha....I think.:-)

"I meant none of what I said mentions that he's a prison guard."

Ah...my mistake...carry on.

Carry on, aye ma'am. *steps back* Good evening ma'am. *about face*

Ahhh....the power I have with just two words. What a well trained Marine!:-)

***Starts thinking if something like that would work on muddy: "hand me the tv remote"..."massage my back"...."feed me some bon-bons"....*****

IF years ago yoou had talked muddy into joining the Marines (or the Kevlars as he calls us) things like that might have worked.

Side note...

"Feet me some bon-bons"? WTF?

"IF years ago yoou had talked muddy into joining the Marines"

Wow! That one is Such a loonngg story. But at hte time, it was the Army or Air Force I thought he wanted to go into. ( is that right, muddy?)

"Feet me some bon-bons"? WTF?"

LMAO!
Well, first of all, I did *not* say:
"Fee*t* me some bon-bons" I said:
"Fee*d* me some ........."
AND *you* never heard of a bon-bon? Good God man! I'm to damn young to feel that old!:-P Well, if you really don't know, they're candy. Maybe I should have been more specific? Or maybe you just have your mind on that "old" ricky martin song. If that's the case then ....hahahhahhahahha!!!!!

***mrs. muddy falls off her chair in hysterics***

I wonder what you would call torture.
Here s what the military report says, you'll find a link to it on the link you posted yourself. You'll find the "light version" the one based on photographs includes hitting beating prisonners and raping a woman (it is called "having sex"). The heavier version includes cases of sodomy. And all this, so has to "prepare" prisonners and "convince" them into talking ...
what do you need to call it torture ? Electric shocks ? Nails under the fingers ? Burns ?
It's true it has not happened. You can call it "light" torture then... But that's basically torture : forcing someone to talk and say what you want to hear.

and what about this comment when I tried to post sth :
"Your comment could not be submitted because your a wanker : p e n i s " Seems the word is too gross for some eyes.
you should write "you are a" ...

6. (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by
military police personnel included the following acts:

a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees;
jumping on their naked feet;
b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and
female detainees;
c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various
sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and
keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's
underwear;
f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate
themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and
then jumping on them;
h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box,
with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his
fingers, toes, and "word not allowed by the posting form, it uses a p an e a N an i and a s" to simulate electric torture;
i. (S) Writing "I am a Rapest" (sic) on the leg of a
detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old
fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked
detainee's neck and having a female Soldier pose for a
picture;
k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female
detainee;
l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles)
to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least
one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.
(ANNEXES 25 and 26)

8. (U) In addition, several detainees also described the
following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I
find credible based on the clarity of their statements
and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses
(ANNEX 26):

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the
phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a
chair;
e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;
f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the
wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed
against the wall in his cell;
g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and
perhaps a broom stick.
h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and
intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one
instance actually biting a detainee.

10. (U) I find that contrary to the provision of AR 190-8,
and the findings found in MG Ryder's Report, Military
Intelligence (MI) interrogators and Other US Government
Agency's (OGA) interrogators actively requested that MP
guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable
interrogation of witnesses. Contrary to the findings of
MG Ryder's Report, I find that personnel assigned to the
372nd MP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to
change facility procedures to "set the conditions" for MI
interrogations. I find no direct evidence that MP
personnel actually participated in those MI
interrogations. (ANNEXES 19, 21, 25, and 26).

I'd call all of that abuse. None of it torture. The closest to torture they get there would be the dogs, andlying to the guy about electric shock. That's the closest they get.

DF:

"and what about this comment when I tried to post sth :
"Your comment could not be submitted because your a wanker : p e n i s " Seems the word is too gross for some eyes.
you should write "you are a" ..."

Muddy was having alot of trouble with people leaving p o r n crap on this site so he basically had to "disallow" alot of stuff. There was actually something *I* tried to comment on about a month ago and it wouldn't let *Me*.:-) I don't remember what word I used but I do remember I had to change it. When I asked muddy what the "deal" was he said with a half smile..."so *you're* the one trying to post..." he told me what to do from there....

Yeah Mrs Muddy. I got that. At first i thought it was directed against me. But then I searched for the word p E and you now the other 3 letters in the text found it and suppressed it... Spammers are really an horrible burden ...

if its not torture, what do you call all the prisoners that died there? were they abused to death?

DF, I had no problems with spammers and people could type almost anything then it hit me like a tsunami. I had to spend considerable time implementing blacklists and word filters etc.. pain in the buttocks.

mooseboy: yes, if they died as a result of the abuse. Though I'd say most of them probably died due to a mixture of abuse and already ill health.

I don't understand why this is even an argument as we all agree it was wrong.

"I don't understand why this is even an argument as we all agree it was wrong."

welll OK then. Sometimes you sounded as if it was the same as bad jokes between college seniors and juniors...

(By the way, even these "jokes" are forbidden by law in France)

Hey, remember Nick Berg...
Well, I was browsing on the internet ... And from site to site I ended up there :
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html

from here
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archive_berg.html

And I don't know if you've looked at the video. I'm not into images, even less gore ones. So I did not. But the orange jacket, and the no blood when they behead him ... that's weird.

DF, I know you'd love to believe Everything you read... buuutttttt... don't.

about the nick berg thing, i had suspicious feelings about it from its release. first of all it was relased about 2 days after abu grab broke. convient to shift focus away from that scandal. secondly, i Did see the video and on it, it looked very suspicious. it just didnt appear gory enough to be real.

add to that, his family requested a "closed coffin" so no one saw his body if there was one. he also was in iraq working for some satellite-telecommunications company, but oddly enough no one could fine the website for the company. there is also information that he may have been working for the cia or massad. so know one knows if hes really dead or not, or what the situation is regarding him.

so his video VERY WELL could be a fake. now im not going to say the army did it, but i think it may have been fabricated. if anyone saw the russian solider get his head cut off, he definatley died and that was real. the nick berg thing i thought was very suspicious from the first time i saw it. so, muddy maybe you shouldnt belive everything you read.

You're going to imply that nick berg video was faked?! That's insane. His father was so ardently anti-war and anti-Bush that it can not be believed. That's not mentioning that it was broken by al-Jazeera, a network that doesn't make to many bones about its hatred of the US.

For god's sake, his head was cut off! You think Kurt Cobain faked his death since he had a closed casket?

Nick Berg was a freaking steeple jack. He climbed towers to install eqipment at their tops. It's a job that pays extrodinarily well in the US and pays a couple fortunes in Iraq. The sat-com company he worked for, was his own company, it was a very small one, that's why there was no website.

Give me a break. I at least had some respect for your opinions, however wrong and misguided they seemed, but this crap makes you sound like part of the loony left.

"add to that, his family requested a "closed coffin" so no one saw his body if there was one."

So if *your* head was severed from *your* body, you'd want an open coffin so your friends and family (and their children) could see you like that?

conspiration theories always make me laugh.
To know the truth I'd have to watch the video, I don't want to, and spend lot's of days ... for probably nothing. I'm not interested.
I just thought amusing some lousy right wingers conspirationist believers held that theory.
And if there's no blod on the video, then it would meen he was already dead when beheaded.

skywalker belive what you wish too. WHAT COMPANY, let alone some technology related company does NOT have a website?

and as far as his head being cut off, that was main point. i dont know if it was real or not. if youve seen that russian/ccheyan solider video. there was NO ambiguity that the guy died or his head was cut off.

with the neck berg, they put him on the ground. he was surrouned by 3 people so you couldnt directly see what was going on, then thy made some gesticulation with a knife and you heard screeming. then they lifted teh head. on top of this the viedo was EXTREMELY poor quailty.

that could have EASILY been faked. i dont care if you have respect for my opinions or not. i just question the authenticity of the video. and especially after things surfaced that made it appear berg may have been working for the cia or some intelligence agency.

is he dead? i dont know. could be, could not be. the whole father anti-bush thing has nothing to do with it the video OR the circumstances of which the son was found in iraq. the US had detained nick berg 2 or 3 times before he was released and "kidnaped". the last time they had him for a week of questioning, then released him on his on will after he DECLINED a flight home and left on his own voltion. then he was kidnapped 1 or 2 days later.

you people are the ones that "belive anything you read". i have my suspicions. i can accept it as real, especially since the terrorist really have been kidnapping and killing people. but i just found that video and the circumstances regarding nick berg in iraq just a tad odd.

First off, being a steeple jack is hardly a technology related thing.

Second, lots of very small companies, even technology related companies have no website. How do I know? I'm a computer-engineer, I've had to deal with them! His company was small to the point that he was the employee, he did contract work.

I don't believe anything I read. I believe anything that is a) consistent with what I already know to be true or b) I can verify independently.

skywalker wrote :
"I don't believe anything I read. I believe anything that is a) consistent with what I already know to be true or b) I can verify independently."

I guess that's the reason why you are wrong so often ... :-)
There's too many things you think are "true" that are completely false. Having wrong basis, that's how you end up with the wrong conclusions.

Because of course. I have no bias... :-)

I wonder why the guy was dressed in orange ... But frankly, he's dead, and since then others have been killed by terrorists ... So ... It's not very important...
More so is ... We'll we have that stockmarket crash today, in september ... or will it wait some month more ...

How much time do you think status quo can linger on ? Days, weeks, months or years ?
I really hope Bush will get reelected, because it will be so fun to see him in charge when everything falls down... He might do stupid things though ... Well ... We'll see.