muddysmind.com

Only true, pure yellow-bellied cowards would hide behind innocent children.

Our (muddys and mine) prayers go out to all the innocent involved. May there be a very safe and quick end to this despicable act.

As evil leads to more evil ... Let's not forget all the chechens presently occupied by the russian forces ... Killings, rapes and the rest happen each day overthere.
And let us pray for peace and reconciliation.

Let us also not forget that the Russians offered them a political route to independence and they rejected it.

Never heard that one ... Have you any info on this (sincerely, I never heard any such proposal)

Here's what's in Lemonde today.
translation ( I guess google can do that too)
THe massacre in beslan was broadcasted worlwide. In ?? "tchetchénie" the war is waged usually without camera. This monday you can see on channel four a documentary based on a russian soldier filming the invasion of a small village.

russian troops gather hundreds of civilians as a human shield in front of the tanks. They negociate the surrender of their entrenched opponents. These people surrender and give up their weapons. They are supposed to be held prisonners and let alived (putin promised so if they would surrender). But the Russian soldiers just shoot them. Then they cut their ears on some to be used as a trophy. And they sell the bodies to the families (if you want the body of your son to burry it, you have to pay 2000 dollars) ...

so see what i mean ... It's an ugly story from beginning to end.

Le massacre perpétré à l'école de Beslan, en Ossétie du Nord, a d'autant plus frappé les esprits que les images du carnage ont aussitôt circulé dans le monde entier. La guerre qui se poursuit en Tchétchénie a lieu au contraire pratiquement à l'abri des caméras. Le document présenté lundi soir sur Canal Plus, dans "90 minutes", est donc tout à fait extraordinaire. Il s'agit d'une vidéo réalisée par un soldat russe en mars 2000, au moment de la reprise par l'armée russe d'un village, Komsomolskoïe, tenu par la guérilla tchétchène. A l'époque, l'assaut contre Komsomolskoïe avait été présenté par les médias russes comme un succès militaire qui avait abouti à la capture de 76 combattants tchétchènes pris les armes à la main. C'est un tout autre tableau que dresse le soldat Volodia. On y voit des centaines de villageois entassés par les forces russes, et utilisés comme bouclier humain entre les tanks russes et les combattants tchétchènes. On voit ensuite deux chefs tchétchènes, Abou et Beslam, négocier leur reddition avec un général russe. Les hommes sortent des caves où ils se terraient et remettent leurs armes.

Ceux qui sont encore valides sont parqués dans un champ. D'autres sont obligés de creuser des fosses. Le président Poutine avait promis l'amnistie aux combattants qui déposeraient leurs armes. En réalité, la plupart de ceux qui se sont rendus, ce 10 mars 2000 à Komsomolskoïe, ont été exécutés le jour même.

Le soldat Volodia n'a pas filmé les exécutions sommaires, mais il montre, encore vivants, de nombreux combattants dont les familles seront invitées, quelques jours plus tard, à reconnaître les cadavres, contre argent comptant. Il leur en coûtera une somme supplémentaire pour emporter les corps. Certains ont l'oreille tranchée, les soldats russes l'ayant emportée comme un trophée. Mylène Sauloy, la journaliste qui a obtenu une copie de cette vidéo, a retrouvé des survivants de Komsomolskoïe. Beslam, un des deux chefs, qui s'est réfugié en Belgique, raconte que sa famille a payé 2 000 dollars pour le récupérer vivant. Il a reçu une balle dans le bras alors qu'il s'était déjà rendu et qu'il était étendu à terre. Un autre survivant, retrouvé à Istanbul, a également été racheté pour 2 000 dollars. En Tchétchénie, l'armée russe rançonne indistinctement les vivants et les morts.

No doubt you never heard that the Israeli's offered the PLO all but one or two of its demands back in 1998, but I bet you blame the Israeli's for their issues with terrorism.

You can not use the excuse of a war (which I know little about but I don't believe the Russians started - I just looked it up and it was started bya Chechen warlord by invading Dagestan) to justify (as you just tried to) holding innocent women and children hostage and murdering them. War is war. Tragedies occur in war, people do commit rape and murder in war and that is wrong. But you can not blame the actions of others for your the despicable ones of your own.

I went back to try and find an article on the Russian proposal (I remember it fromt he time and it was mentioned on TV this morning) but it was awhile ago. Essentially it involved them more or less governing themselves and slowly moving towards independence, much like the "Home rule" ide in Britain for Ireland prior to WW2.

DF, these are terrorists, you can appease them to your hearts content, but they are people who have goals and are willing to kill anyone, and are willing to die, to see their goals acomplished. They understand 2 things: violence and their goals. Yout ell me how you deal with such people?

My apologies but I don't speak French, I speak English and Spanish, but my Spanish is more limited than it once was as I never use it.

I agree that the actions of Russian soldiers is horrible, but let us remember that the Chechen's started it, and the Chechen's are specifically targetting women and children. This is all not mentioning that many of the leaders are tied to al-quaeda.

I'm not justifying the terrorists act. That would be impossible even if I tried to. This is simply criminal.
I'm just saying it is not a reason to buy into Putin's crap.
He's close to becoming a dictator. He bans opponents, restricts free press... He's been in favor of the war Chechen country all along.

The 1 or 2 things that the OLP did not get were not "minor things". THe UN resolution of 1967 guarantees a right of return for all the palestinian refugees. Israel did not grant that, nor any form of compensation. And the other issue was about the status of jerusalem I think.

In any war, as soon as it as begun, it is impossible to castigate one side. Some evil leader may have started it ... But knowing this provides no way for a solution.

Chechen, Palestin, and Iraq are 3 occupied countries.
Checheny is occupied by a close to tyrannic country, in Checheny elections are faked (last elections were clearly so)
In palestin Israel is a democratic country. Occupation is clearly illegal. PLO is not very democratic. It might be moving in this direction .. With dificulty. Israelis have repetedly and consistently not fulfilled their promisses ... They have argued that PLO were not holding theirs of a cease fire ... It was true in some cases ... But it provides no justification for Israeli's constant reinforcement of colonies, occupation and its constant attacks on the only representative organ of the palestinian people so far (PLO)and the palestinian administration.
In Iraq, the war was illegal, it has progressively been accepted since there is a clear project of helping the creation of a free iraki government.

However in all 3 cases, foreign armies are on the soil of a country and people from these countries resent this. AS long as they will, terrorism will be fed.

One sure bet : move all the US armies out of the Arab region and less terrorist acts will happen against US interests.

But that too would have a cost ... (it would leave all the old local allies to the mercy of the ennemies, it may prove dangerous on a global scale ...) In fact finding a quick solution to the problem (as the british did in India, australia, as the french did in New caledonia ...) helps not to be forced to retreat in complete disgrace later : As the french did in vietnam (followed by the US)or in algeria.

The more you castigate your ennemies, the less you are able to understand them, and to find the solution for peace.

A good leader has to be able to love those he fights.

wtf