"A mass grave containing hundreds of bodies, including many women and children, has been exhumed in northern Iraq. The discovery is said to confirm that large-scale executions took place during Saddam Hussein's 24-year rule. Iraqi human rights organisations believe the site is just one of some 40 mass graves countrywide. Up to 300,000 people are thought to have been killed under the regime of the Iraqi dictator who was deposed last year."
Some of the bodies were children still clutching their toys.
Read the entire article here
cwilli note: Yea, Saddam wasnt a threat to anyone....
Posted by cwilli at October 13, 2004 10:38 AM | TrackBackFebruary 2003-
ME: "There are not WMDs. Bush is rushing into war because he knows there are no WMD."
CWILLI: "You are un-american! If we dont find WMD in 6 months then I will not vote for Bush in 2004"
FLIP-FLOP!
Posted by: bennyhill1978 at October 13, 2004 04:18 PMNice try. We did find them.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36463
Just because the news media wont play this story doesnt make it any less true. But being a conspiracy theorist yourself, you probably already know that.
Posted by: cwilli at October 13, 2004 05:29 PMAlso could you please provide a link to this discussion in Feb 2003. I cannot find it on this site anywhere. Thanks
Posted by: cwilli at October 13, 2004 11:19 PMCwilli you're pathetic...
"A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party. "
Exiled opposition party ... SOunds just like Ahmed CHalabi to me.
Come on ... You prefer to rely on some lousy site relying on lousy resources ... Than believing what the US inspectors have to say after spending one year in Iraq searching for weapons.
They stated clearly that most of the weapons were destroyed under UN inspections. That no real threat remained after that.
If anything was passed to syriah then it must be of very little quantity.
Bennyhill ... You must be wrong. Because I remember back in 2003 ...
Me : cwilli, there are no WMD, and huge opposition and disorder will follow US invasion. When that will be proven ... Will you agree that the invasion was an error.
CWILLI : no.
Cwilli is simply in favor of Bush and the neocons. The reality do not affect him. He knows better. Whatever happens he has an explation for it. Weapons not in Iraq, then in syriah. France oppose to the war : that's because its leaders in saddam's pocket (seems the entire World was in Saddam's pocket ...) ...
And so on.
Wake up cwilli. Noone ever denied the fact that Saddam was a tyran.
Just cross the border and invade Iran, you'll probably find other massgraves, same in Syriah, same in Jordany ...
Saddam was corrupt and corrupting. Sure. Same with all the oil regime. Be sure of one thing if a country was to invade the USA, many secrets would be unfold. There's not a country, not an individual without some darkside well hidden. IF you look for the bad in something or someone you will always find some.
So the question is relative quantity. There's no question Saddam was one of the worst Tyran. But that's not the reason the US fought it. If it was so, why would they fight for democracy in Iraq, and against democracy in Venezuela ?
The official reason was WMD. No WMD were found that's the official verdict now, eventually endorsed even by the administration of the USA that launched the war.
Go back to reason Cwilli. Look around. Many believed with you that there would be WMD in Iraq. Very few still believe there were any WMD in Iraq.
This war started on lies by the US administration. Where it will end remains open. But the vietnam like shame ending is a real possibility.
Posted by: DF at October 14, 2004 05:46 AMyou can read below... The US fear WMD, they invade Iraq... And then they forget to monitor the nuclear sites ... And they get looted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738452.stm
Posted by: DF at October 14, 2004 05:48 AMI've done some reading of the old posts ... And everything is there :
1 no WMD in Iraq, north Korea more dangerous, nuclear "proofs" are fakes
Answer from Cwilli : yes there are WMDs, nuclear ones too
Final verdict : No WMD (see last report from chief of US inspectors) absolutely no nuclear programs, no drones, no chemical labs and no other craps presented to the UNO as proofs ...
2 no link between Iraq and Al quaida, no agression from Iraq, but on the contrary a direct assault from the USA without the approval of the UNO . The coalition did not ask for the approval because it knew that if that approval had been asked it would not have gotten it. Therefore an illegal war. It is irrealistic to hope that saddam will stop posturing and comply with all the demands of the UN. This would to humiliating and he would lose power. The aim is to disarm, not to humiliate. Inspections worked. In Bosnia, the serbs were attacking the kosovars (or believed to be so)so there was a urge, and yes Russia would have vetoed any resolution, but the majority of the council was for the attack of serbia.
Cwilli's line : we can't wait until iraq strikes first ... UN resolutions ask for Iraq to proove he has disarmed, he did not, so we can wage war. Besides the same thing happened in Bosnia. Iraq has had 12 years to prove it disarmed.
Final verdict : inspections worked.
US and UK still believed the war is legal. The UNO's leader still believe it was not.
Still pending : the international recognition of the future iraki government
3 opponent's line
Risks of the after war, who will take charge of iraq, risks of opposition, civil wars, Algerian and Vietnam style war ...
cwilli's line :
People cheer for US troops, toppling of saddam's statue, we'll be welcomed as freers. AND terrorists bomb us because we're not islamics. Islam is bad.
Final verdict : 10100 US deaths so far. Armed resistance still present.
Remains open : Will the moderate shiite line win over the violent one ? It seems so.
Will sunnites stop violence and agree to be ruled by shiites ... ?. What with the kurds ? The situation remains shaky.
4 oppenents to the war line
THis administration is ruining its world support and credibility, the world is turning against the US because of guantanamo, kyoto protocol, protectionnism, illegal war in Iraq, unilateral decisions. IT fuels terrorism.
Cwilli's line : We are americans. We care for our interests. If the world is against it, so be it. Guantanamo is the best legal solution available. Terrorism can only be dealt by repression.
Final verdict : international polls show growing opposition to the USA, and especially to this administration (the world would vote kerry 80 to 20 according to one poll). Recruiting for al quaida seems strong. Several Guantanamo decisions have been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court. Trials will start soon with access to lawyers. Prisonners recently released from guantanamo claim that they have been subject to different forms of abuse.
5 opponents to the war line :
Democracy is hard to build espescially from the outside and Iraki a tricky nation. Democracy is not the real cause for this war. The cause relies in questions of pride, oil contracts, family ties ... If democracy comes, the elected government will ask the USA to leave and start to build new weapons.
Pro war : Bringing democracy is the only way to bring economic growth and hope. Democracy is the reason for the war, saddam was a tyran. It will be there in january 2005. Irakis will be forever friends with the USA hence after.
Final verdict : open.
cwilli: check MCI's outlook servers for the 2003 log... If you remember you sent an email to the whole department... lol.
I surprised you forgot about your pledge not to support Bush if he turned out to be a liar. I'm not surprised that Bush himself cant seem to remember his (official) original reasons for sending Marines to Iraq to do the job of wepons inspectors. You dont justify a war after the fact.
Colin Powell remembers lying to the UN for his commander in chief and he has fessed up and apologized.
Rumsfeld has apologized.
Bush cant seem to remember why he should apologize... He has been asked directly in his unprecidentedly infrequent press conferences and more recently in the debates 'What are some mistakes you've made in 4 years and what have you learned'. In his press conference he said "You know im sure i've made mistakes before but I just can't remember any" and in the debate he ducked responsibility by implying -without directly answering the question- that any mistakes during his term were not his fault but instead caused by appointees "I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm not going to name them. I don't want to hurt their feelings on national TV." The man is too cowardly to even answer the question. I guess that is what passes for 'resolve' these days.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/12/EDGII95N7G1.DTL
Yes there are mass graves in Iraq, some of them are quite fresh. Some are tainted with with chemicals that Bush(41) supplied to Saddam - paid for by US tax dollars. Others are reminscent of the mass graves in Japan for h-bomb victims and the new mass graves in the Congo that are being filled with innocent victims today. Why are US forensics experts risking their lives in Iraq to desicrate 20 year old graves? (A: to justify an unjust war, after the fact) Why is the US ignoring the ongoing genocide in the Congo? (A: Because we wait until a genocide is OVER before punishing one person deemed to be responsible - (as in Yugoslavia) I wonder how many in those mass graves were Kurds killed for following Bush(41)'s command to 'Rise-Up', he promised to help them, but renigged when Clinton pulled ahead in the polls.
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=34048
The Generals of the Pentagon know Bush is fighting a useless war that increases global terrorism - why do you belive AWOL Bush over people like Wesley Clark, and others who have led well planned assaults that accomplished goals without squandering a surplus into an unprecidented deficit, without causing unneccessary and excessive civilian loss or (in the case of Clark) without a single US troop killed in combat?
Im sure many more in intel and the military see the error of Bush as well. Unfortunately, with the changes he has made to American armed forces, they could now lose their carreer by publicly opposing the Republicans.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/11/cointelpro/index_np.html
Bottom line, Bush retailated to 9/11 by attacking the wrong Arab and protecting the real supporters of Al Qaeda - Saudi royals who he cares for more than the american people.
He retailated to Enron and WCOM by arresting online file swappers.
Asleep at the wheel.
Bush is a gargantuan coward, theif, retard who is counting on the lower class to fall for his lies.
Posted by: bennyhill1978 at October 14, 2004 03:36 PM"check MCI's outlook servers for the 2003 log... If you remember you sent an email to the whole department... lol."
Ah, I see. Well I dont deny saying it. I just thought it was on this site.
Anyhow. I still believe that there were WMD's in Iraq. I believe that they have been moved to Syria prior to our invasion.
I disagree with you about Bush, Bennyhill. We will never see eye to eye on that subject. I dont think he has been a perfect President as I disagree with him on many issue's however I believe that 99% of what you stated above to be untrue. I can find news articles to counter every one of the ones that you provided with any problem. You know this is true. There are many people who feel the exact same way I do. There are many people who feel the exact same way you do. Nobody actually know all the truths, all we have is a broken news media who will say anything to push an agenda. Whatever side of the fence that may be.
But I will NEVER vote for a man who gave aid and confort to the Viet Cong while our troops were being tortured to admit to attrocities. Meanwhile he freely gave them an admission based on events he admitted he never seen with his own eyes.
Also I will never vote for a socialist.
Iraq was the right thing to do. Saddam was a threat to the United States and he had WMD. You will never see a change in my belief of that.
DF: I would be suprised if there was one person who read beyond the first line of what you wrote. I didnt, therefore the only response that I have for you is thank you for thinking about me and God bless.
Posted by: cwilli at October 14, 2004 06:05 PMYou can only change if you agree to it. I piled up the facts. Reread the old posts. Compiled it for you. But If you won't read them, then... you just prove you are what I say you are.
Posted by: DF at October 15, 2004 05:31 AMDf, I could never be changed by someone I have zero respect for. Dont take it personally but I think you have some sort of mental problem that you should probably seek help for.
Good luck with that.
Posted by: cwilli at October 15, 2004 09:14 AMWell see 1 year ago, your opinions were obviously wrong, but you could still say that most americans felt like you, that you were saying the same thing as the Bush administration, that the news were supporting your views ...
Now, what's left ? Who's with you ? Not the president, not rumsfeld, not the 9/11 commission, not DUelfer ... Nobody in fact except some other lone guys on weird websites. You are alone. And you can't face it. Not yet.
It's OK I have time. The longer it takes the funnier it gets. Even the truest communists had to admit they were wrong when the soviet system collapsed completely. Well ... not immediatly. And you can still find some of them. But communists are rarer these days. Even rarer those who believe the soviet system was good. They're softer too now.
So I believe, when the US economy is down under, when you pay the 50 dollars of our bet to the charity... when this administration is finally overturned (and I doubt it will be in this election)... You may get to change. It's just, it's taking you time, because you're so far away from the real world most of the people live in ...
And also, you live in the wrong country. The USA are now at the top of their strength, they believe the world is theirs. They believe they have the truth for the world. So it's not surprising many individuals within the USA have the same convictions ... This "I can't be wrong" attitude. It's bound to change soon now. Have you heard about the latest employment, deficits confidence oil dow jones figures ? Recession is on the verge.
cwilli: I respect your right to your opinion. In my view one of the greatest things about the US is that different viewpoints can co-exist and that protest traditionally has not always had to resort to violence in order to affect positive changes.
I hope that in the future the socialist organization known as the FCC will lose some of the power it has gained under Bush and the media will one day cease to be dominated by less than 10 mega corporations (whose CEOs are all in the .001% Bush tax bracket.).
Posted by: bennyhill1978 at October 19, 2004 04:40 PMbenny: the fcc has gained ZERO powers under Bush. But, a Clinton appointee to the FCC has been cracking down on things already illegal by fcc regulations.
The fcc btw, is not a socialist organization it is a fascist organization which has far to many powers and whose only function IMO should be to insure organized distribution of broadcast frequencies.
Posted by: skywalker at October 19, 2004 07:06 PMbenny: the fcc has gained ZERO powers under Bush. But, a Clinton appointee to the FCC has been cracking down on things already illegal by fcc regulations.
The fcc btw, is not a socialist organization it is a fascist organization which has far to many powers and whose only function IMO should be to ensure organized distribution of broadcast frequencies.
Posted by: skywalker at October 19, 2004 07:06 PM