muddysmind.com

which articles ?
I must have missed sth

sorry, in all the misery surrounding my captcha problems, i didn't notice there was a problem with the urls. i'll fix it shortly.

fixed

sorry but what's your point ?
Once again the USA are acting out of international legality ?
Granted.
Once again the USA are disrepctful of international agencies ?
Granted.
Stupid pro war americans are still believing in the WMD lies ?
Granted. (remember those planes : lousy ones. Remember that bush lied in his speech to the nation about Iraq trying to enrich uranium and mentionned documents that he knew had been forged etc.)
What else ?
US army can't secure these nuclear material in Iraq so has to ship them out of the country.
Granted. In fact much material has been left without guard after UN inspectors left the country. This has been mentioned on this very site earlier.
here is the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3735224.stm

What else ?
Saddam had tons of yellow cake ?
Of course those where registered and under the custody of the UN.

Stupid US war mongerers understand nothing about diplomacy ?
100 % OK.
DO you really believe now is the time to invade Iran ? Now with a 70 dollar oil ?
And who's to blame for this 70 dollar oil ? Do you know any country sucking up a fourth of the oil produced who is dead against any form of restriction to its use, any reform in favor of mass public transportation, tax on airplanes, control of CO2 emissions ? Do you know of any country who has invaded a major oil exporter and been unable to put more oil on the market ? Any country whose reckless deficits and low interest rates are driving bubbles in stocks housing and now oil ? Search sky, search ...

The reality is that Iran is going to get the nuclear bomb, I think they deserve it to defend themselves against potential agression from Israel, Pakistan and USA.
And the reality is that Iran might well become a democracy before Iraq does... If Iraq still exists in 4 years which remains to be seen.

Powell Calls His U.N. Speech a Lasting Blot on His Record

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 - The former secretary of state, Colin L. Powell, says in a television interview to be broadcast Friday that his 2003 speech to the United Nations, in which he gave a detailed description of Iraqi weapons programs that turned out not to exist, was "painful" for him personally and would be a permanent "blot" on his record.

"I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world," Mr. Powell told Barbara Walters of ABC News, adding that the presentation "will always be a part of my record."

Yeah, I read that too - well, some of it. I don't know what Powell is smoking but he needs to be tested for drug use.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/09/news/powell.php

that's the link.

What do you mean mrs Muddy ?
He finally realises his error and you blame him for that ? You think that comes from drug use ?

might read that one too.
http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/latest-digest.html#anchor0

Well, DF....what I said about Powell? It's called "being a smart ass". I don't think he should appologize for anything. Sadaam is/was/and will always be (as long as he's alive...and hopefully that won't be too much longer) capable of anything and everything. No one will EVER convince me that he didn't have something evil up his sleeve. I'm not going to buy it. It's just who he is. It's his unbreakable patteren. And Powell? I've lost alot of respect for him personally (as far as this situation goes). If he feels the need to appologize - well, then that's his conscience but I think he's off his rocker for doing so.

BTW...spare me your links on this subject (I've already read an article on Powell anyway *before* you said anything about it)...I NEVER read them. Anything you put about WMD's is ALWAYS biased and quite frankly, I have more productive things to do with my time. We disagree on this...we will ALWAYS disagree on this and that is that. I don't even know why I responded.

perhaps because you start to realise that there were no WMD...

DF wrote:

"perhaps because you start to realise that there were no WMD..."

And that, my friend, is exactly the issue. Recognizing Powell's statement for what it is means NOT ONLY that they have to admit that they took the whole line of BS about Iraq hook, line and sinker, but that they ALSO have to admit that those of us who have actually been following this part of the world since 1991 and were consequently able to see through the Bush Administration's lies, were right all along.

Sometimes denial is easier than accepting truth.

At any rate, she does have a point. No sense in continuing to argue; she, my Francophobic little buddy Cwilli and the rest of this echo chamber have made up their minds. Let's stop confusing them with the facts.

Actually, your mind hasn't changed either from all of the articles posted on this website. You stand firm on what you think. Just like I stand firm on what *I* think....which is why I don't bother reading your links. It's just going to be waisting my time on something that's not going to sway me anyhow so why bother? And now I'm just being repetitive of my last comment.

But hey, you believe what you want.

"... but that they ALSO have to admit that those of us who have actually been following this part of the world since 1991..."

Hey, smart ass...uh...I mean Lurker:

We've also been following this world since '91 and just because someone has a different point of view than yours doesn't mean they're not right. AND it doesn't mean that they don't have their own good points from the facts that have been presented (that some are just too blind to see....talk about being "confussed by the facts"!)

Shove that up your smart ass!

It's easy to become smart. It start by confronting to different views.

It's always refreshing to come here and see proof that people like you exist. There are actually people who still believe the US government did not make errors in assessing the WMD's Iraq had in 2003 and in beleaving the road towards democracy would be short and easy. Here and there I pick up news here that I don't find in other places, most of all I learn that some people can be sincere while saying things that would sound to most people i know either stupid or outright lies.

But I guess the words is divided in two,
those who believe it's interesting to confront views, compare and sort of the facts out of the opinions.
And those who believe in following their short sighted opinions, believing their friends and distrusting their foes, and find it perfectly OK to distort facts if it can help the cause.

Opinions may differ, but facts should be for all to share, except of course for fanatics with an agenda.

It's not hard to see which people are superior to the others (FYI that's the one who are members of the fact based community).
It's not hard either to see how people can learn and improve (FYI it's by confronting views and sorting facts out of opinions).
So use your time as you like, but don't be surprised if you don't want to learn that you end up being stupid.

Lurker, you may be right.
But I won't stop to come here until the last point of the 3 predictions I made in 2003 come true.
I said :
1 no wmd. that's done.
2 Iraq 's road towards democracy will be a difficult road.
It is indeed, but I d like to see the final word out of it, will the US goals succeed and democracy prevail. That great success would erase most mistakes. Or will Iraq fall into civil war.
Most probably the result will be something in between : the present mess.

3 The US economy will fall into pieces just like the UdSSR under its debt load, derivative business and other consequences of the stupid supply side economics and deregulation policies.
And this before the end of 2007.
If that happens, Cwilli will have to donate 50 dollars, 25 to ACLU and 25 to amnesty international. I just love this idea.

"But I won't stop to come here until the last point of the 3 predictions I made in 2003 come true."

So, basically, your sticking around *only* to see all of those things happen (according to YOUR way of thinking) so you can what? Rub our little noses in it? Wow, you're quite the compassionate human being now, aren't you?

Do what you want. I'm done with you on this subject.

It's called having fun in prooving your point. I just reread a book from schoppenhauer called how to prove your point 100% of the time. Rather interesting and funny.
Basically intelligent people love to prove stupid people wrong, and usually stupid people : if they are physically stronger harm them, if they can't because they're too far away, insult them (that's cwilli).
That's the negative part of the game. You can say you're not part of it, but skywalker is part of it. He choose that information. he knew it was false, he knew there was nothing new to it. He put it just to ignate some hot debate. And of course it worked.

I mean he posted stuff already posted several times about lousy planes found in the sand, yellow cake and all... Everybody knows that. However this stuff does not equal the lies excuse me errors that powell said in front of the UNO : iraq will get the nuclear bomb in less than 2 years, has tons of chemicals ready, can send these nasty bombs very far in a very short period of time ... Etc. ETC. and the drones and the mobile chemical labs, and all the nonsense you believed at the time and posted on this very website and were proven false. And all the stuff powell said, well I'm sorry I said it, and i'm sorry i had people believe in it. THey were false.
It makes no difference that saddam is evil. THis is not the debate. No one is debating if saddam is evil.

Now there's a good side to the game, and it's the basis of free speech and democracy.
If free speech was only something that said everybody can be allowed to say anything it would not work. Nobody would agree on anything. Chaos would result.

BUT. Thank all the democrats, there's a good thing about free speech. the intelligent outwit the stupid people, the stupid people. The fact based community is united against the faith based community and in the long term it always win.
So progressively, the stupid people are forced to stop saying stupid stuff. Progressively stupid ideas and false information are processed out of the main information channels.

That's what I m doing here, and lurker and mooseboy, it's cleaning the lies and false information out of the thing posted here.
its hygienic for the web as a whole.

The downside of it is that free speech creates antipathy and agressive reaction, the good thing is that the better ideas and information and facts are selected out of the process.

So the only question is : you don't want to get any comment on Iraq : stop saying there were WMD's there, the decision to go there was wise and based on a thoughtful reflection and an informed public debate. And stop saying the USA are so great and everybody envies you, because frankly I know very few europeans who do.
THe US country has become a land of "take the money and run" and that's the model they export world wide.
It once was a nation with a work ethic where people worked hard and got decent wages out of this work. It now is a nation where people make cash by mortgaging their homes, betting on the stock markets and suing their neighbors. It now is a nation where a complete city has been destroyed, all authorities at all levels failed to provide help, and most people think, cool, let's take the insurance cash and move on to another place, let's let somebody else take charge of the public good, I don't care.
The US have sided so much with the market that they have all the failures that go with a market : egoism, free riding, lack of values, speculation.

That's why it is high time that a global depression hits, so we can get rid of all the fanatics of the market. THe UdSSR has fallen and the world is a better place. Now the time has come for the US to fall. SO we can build something better that avoids all extremism, wether extreme planing as in UdSSR or extreme market as in the USA.