Comments: Torture? Not if cheerleaders do it, lawyer claims

do you have the flu, i thought you were for torture and killing prisoners? that argument sounded like something cwili would say didnt it? 'the pictures didnt Look bad, so whats the problem?'


how many people have been killed in abu ghraib, or whos deaths are being "investagated". i belive its over 80, and thats what theyre saying publicly. but thats war. i guess all the people who voted for bush and cited morality like killing and torturing of people. tens of thousands of innocent people have been "liberated" for eternity. i guess thats their salvation from sadaams evilness.

Posted by mooseboy84 at January 11, 2005 12:32 PM

oh, and BTW. just wait till the death squads start having their fun. we'll really win the "hearts and minds" of iraqis when we have thugs going around killing lots of innocent people. it was called operation phoenix in vietnam, maybe it will be called "Operation Valkyrie" in iraq.

Posted by mooseboy84 at January 11, 2005 12:36 PM

muddy -
Of ALL the things going on in the world today, you pick *this* crap to post again?!

Posted by mrs. m at January 11, 2005 02:12 PM

mooseboy, you're an idiot. That's all that your comments in this thread warrant.

Posted by skywalker at January 11, 2005 09:07 PM

I posted it because the lawyer is clueless.
Mooseboy ... aahhh (nevermind)

Posted by Muddy at January 11, 2005 09:18 PM

"that argument sounded like something cwili would say didnt it?"

LOL!

Mooseboy just earned top of the pyramid!!!

Posted by cwilli at January 11, 2005 09:31 PM

...
Abu ghraib is about people who have been beaten, have standed naked for hours, were deprived of food and others ...
Pain can be also moral pain. As in the famous nazi anecdote, where they asked a jewish woman to choose which child out of two to save.
Here clearly moral pain was inflicted in order to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure ...
I don't think any of you would like to be forced to suck somebody's else genital organs.

Anyway.
I can't find the thread anymore. But I remember I told cwilli that one of the consequences of global warming was increased precipitations in the temperate areas. This would flood paris and most cities of the western world.

Well it seems it started in California recently.

The Kyoto protocal has been ratified by Russia at last ... Sooner or later, the USA will have to join the rest of the world. It s only a matter of time, till the cost of global warming finally appear and proove much larger than the costs of preventing it.

You can still pretend it's an accident. But this argument won't hold forever.
hurricanes, rain, drought, appear more and more often. The climate is changing and the reason lies in the emission of different gaz. Oil and coal consumption leading to CO2 emissions are the main culprits.

Posted by DF at January 13, 2005 05:46 PM

Yea, mudslides are new. They never happened before. Not before humans anyhow. The world would be a much better place without humans.

Russia only radified the Kyoto protocol because they can sell their unused pollution points. Thats the ONLY reason, but I would not expect you to know that.

I also wouldnt expect you to know that under the kyoto protocol China is not expected to curb its pollution output at all. They are free to pollute all they want. They are classified as a growing nation and we couldnt even think about stopping a growning nation from growing.

The kyoto protocol was created as a way to seperate Americans from their money.

Its funny how those nations who will get monetary gains are all for it and those who would be punished by having to pay money are against it.

Funny isnt it? But again, I wouldnt expect you to know that.

Posted by cwilli at January 13, 2005 06:45 PM

Next I am expecting DF to claim he created the Internet. Are we sure he is not Al Gore in disquise. I am not sure, but has'nt natural disasters been around since the beginning of time? Oh and DF I could careless what happened in Abu Ghraib, myself being an ex-soldier I am more concerned about the atrocities committed against our soldiers every day by those terrorist over there. Were is your outcry about that?

Posted by 1029FD at January 13, 2005 07:52 PM

Cwilli I know all the things you mention.
The thing is China IS a growing nation. A chinese is polluting ten times less than a US citizen. THere's no reason they should curb their pollution now.
As the USA are the leaders in economic growth, and leaders in pollution, they should be showing the way. SO far, they've polluted the most, but so far, they still refuse to pay any cost for this.

Mudslides have happened before. Droughts too. And hurricanes also.
But the thing is they are happening more and more often. There's no denying that.
The 4 hottests years since 1900 have occured in the last ten years.

And if you want to hear it. Americans HAVE to get seperated from their money. They are destroying earth with it. What's more, if it was THEIR money, it may even be different. But the thing is the US are borrowing billions to the world. So in fact the world (with china in the first line) is lending cash to the united states of america, so they can pollute the earth.

Finally terrorist commit atrocities. That's no surprise coming from them. Those commiting atrocities are called terrorists. Jails are there to put terrorists in them. THe judicial system is made to sue them.
But those who turn into terrorists in order to fight terrorists have to be punished in the very same way.
Put in another way. I don't care if the terrorist is a US soldier or an Iraki "liberty fighter". I don't care if the terrorist is right wing timothy mac veigh or left wing red army. Terrorists get tried, sentenced and jailed by honest people. Wherever they come from.
Those siding with terrorists, of any side, are becoming terrorists.


Posted by DF at January 14, 2005 04:23 AM

Actually DF, statistically, hurricanes et al, are hapenning the same or less. They're just getting more news coverage because they're hitting land more. So the 4 hottest years since 1900 have happened in the past 10 years, so what? What the hell does that prove?

Once against you're just and anti-American, socialist jack ass. I'm sick of your type, and I'm tolerant. So shut the fsck up unless you can use real data not flawed computer models or socialist (thereby flawed) economic theory. Or just statements based ony our hatred of our country. If you can't base yourself in reality, then go to hell and leave us alone 'cause frankly, I'm tired of it and don't give a shit anymore. You live in a socialist land of make believe claiming our economy is going to hell in a hand basket and yours is just is a small slump when ours is booming and yours is in a slump. You think making men do something they'd otherwise kill to do is torture. Sorry your french dick head, but shut the fsck up cause you don't fscking know torture.

By the way, the problem of how to try captured terrorists is a lot more complex than you make it out to be so once again, shut the fsck up.

You're so full of shit, you think you have all the answers (or at least you act like you do) but in reality all you have are ways to fsck the world (especially the US) over.

Posted by skywalker at January 15, 2005 04:04 AM

Oh yeah, one more thing, the chinese pollute more per capita because there are so many of them, if you normalize the populations, they pollute a HELL of a lot more per capita than we do. Why not nip them int he bud? OH YEAH! Because that wouldn't hurt the US as bad. Let's get real, global warming has about as much basis in reality has sawing a woman in half in a magic show.

Posted by skywalker at January 15, 2005 04:07 AM

Excuse me, less per capita because there are so many of them.

Posted by skywalker at January 15, 2005 04:10 AM

Exactly, but those are the facts that DF is unwilling to see because it blows his argument out of the water.

See how he uses the per capita argument when it comes to charity but when it comes to something else that would hurt his argument, he does not take it into account. That’s called HYPOCRISY.

"Americans HAVE to get seperated from their money."

That just proves my point. The only thing you know is hate for America. Hate that stems from jealousy. The average hard working family, in America, does not pollute any more or less than a hard working family in any other country. Yet, the American family must be removed from their money? And where should that money go? You guessed it, to someone who hates us.

The good thing is that you and your country are insignificant. I wonder who’s ass France will be attached to tomorrow?

France is a parasite.

Posted by cwilli at January 15, 2005 12:23 PM

"I wonder who’s ass France will be attached to tomorrow?"

LOL...Should we place our bets now or give it some time?:-D


Posted by mrs. m at January 15, 2005 12:40 PM

i guess its that time of the month for some people around here.

Posted by mooseboy84 at January 16, 2005 12:15 AM

Gee, mooseboy, if *you're* going through that time of the month, let me be the first to inform you that is NOT normal for a male such as yourself. You should seek medical help immediately!

Posted by mrs. m at January 16, 2005 12:46 AM

You know what, Mooseboy. Even if its not that time of the month for you, you still should probably seek some type of help....

Posted by cwilli at January 16, 2005 10:56 AM

Graner has been judged guilty.

May be the military is being overtaken by the liberals ...
WHat dy a think ?


Aside from that, the average hard working family in the USA of course pollutes more than any family in the world. That's the basis of per capita statistics. ANd if you want examples well, there's more SUV's in the USA than in any part of the world. US cars use more gasoline than other's cars. US use more water, use more packaging than other countries. THey use more climatisation. ANd so on.

You leave in this dream world where everybody else is jealous of you. Get real. This was true before. At the time when the USA were the land of the free, a generous country.

Americans have to be separated from their cash, does not mean the cash has to be taken by others. If others get to pollute in the same way as the USA, it is useless. It means that the USA are leading the world in the wrong direction so they need be replaced as leaders. That's all.

And for your information global warming is real. But I don't think I can expect people like you to accept this fact. Even when US cities will get flooded (predictions for 2040) you'll manage to cover it up someway or another. (Let's see, may be it'll be God angry at US liberals that has sent calamities against liberal cities ...)

Posted by DF at January 17, 2005 05:46 AM

LOL, your points of view are absolutely hilarious.

I am sure that nobody else in the world owns SUV's. I am sure when car manufacturers make cars they say "is this going to the US? If so than we need to turn on this pollution switch....."

There is no proof that global warming exists just as much as there is no proof that God exists.

Both require faith, I just choose to put mine to good use.

I also would like to see your points of reference on this. Needless to say I have a hard time trusting a Frenchmen.

Posted by cwilli at January 17, 2005 09:47 AM

"...your points of view are absolutely hilarious."

Yes, cwilli, maybe to us....but he's a genius in France.

Posted by mrs. m at January 17, 2005 11:50 AM

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Posted by cwilli at January 17, 2005 06:03 PM

If you think every American is "just like" you hear we are in the news and in the movies, then ...
Your one of the most ignorant people I've ever talked to... regardless of race, religion or ethnic background.

How sad for you.

Posted by Muddy at January 17, 2005 06:45 PM

Hey DF, accoording to global warming theory, "Extreme weather" should lessen. But, let's put realities about meteorology aside.

Hey DF, since 1800, care to guess how much the average temperature of the earth has risen?

DF, do you know that most nations would get a net benefit from global warming?

Do you know that antartica is expanding and the sahara is shrinking?

These facts all escape your sight because they don't fit your reality.

Posted by skywalker at January 17, 2005 10:36 PM

that one
"DF, do you know that most nations would get a net benefit from global warming?"
is hilarious.
I wonder how one can procede to such a calculation ... Quote your sources please. let me have fun.

AS for cwilli, travel a bit and you'll see it with your own eyes.
Europeans have smaller cars. One of the reason is that they tax heavily gasoline.
THe problem with the USA is that they started with lots of oil in their soil. So you kept a habit of heavy consumption as if there was still plenty of oil.
But of course I'm sure you don't believe in peak oil either. http://www.peakoil.net/
IT's the same for climatisation, most US homes have it. Most europeans ones don't. You can claim that it's because the US is a so much better advanced country. May be. ANy way, the US are polluting more.


As far as global warming there is now a consensus in the scientific community about it.
Even pathetic anti environmentalist as those,
http://globalwarming.org/article.php?uid=887
agree that there is one.
A scientific vision can be read here
http://www.realclimate.org/
You can also read this for local US consequences...
http://www.climatehotmap.org/namerica.html

Nobody answered to my question. Graner got 10 years. 10 years is quite a lot.
D you think he got them for cheerleader practices ? Or because he molested prisonners ?
Do you think the liberals control the army ? Do you think it's all because the liberal media ?

On a last note, cwilli, if you were using more often your brain cells and traveling more, you would be able to reach conclusion on your own, and not rely solely on what your friends tell you. See, truth is no a question of faith, or trust.
It's not about trusting me, it's about checking facts and agreeing with me, because you have too, as there is no way out.
That's what truth is, something you can't escape.

Posted by DF at January 18, 2005 05:06 AM

hey df, graner got 10 years because what he did was wrong an dbecause they needed someone to blame instead of the higher ups. Why are you still on this?

Posted by skywalker at January 18, 2005 08:44 AM

"Why are you still on this?"

because muddy brought it up in the first place because (in muddy's words) "the lawyer is clueless." and that's the reason we're even talking about this crap again. Now to come up with a suitable "punishment" for muddy hmmmmm........

Posted by mrs. m at January 18, 2005 10:14 AM

"as far as global warming there is now a consensus in the scientific community about it. "

well it was also once believed that the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe and France was worth saving.

We can put global warming in the same catagory as them and just chalk them up to experience.

Posted by cwilli at January 18, 2005 08:59 PM

If I had it all to do over again, I'd have given France back to the Germans after the Big One, on the condition that they left the rest of us alone.

My mistake. Sorry.

Posted by Harry S Truman at January 21, 2005 07:07 AM

The earth being flat was consensus among the catholic community. There was no scientific community at the time. Science was in infancy. It's the same religious people who oppose darwin theory on idiotic grounds ... Science is about fact, not faith, likes and dislikes, something you have trouble to grasp.

Whatever your wishes, you'll live the warming climate. Changes are underway, many have occured as you could have seen if you followed the links I posted. Many more will come. I doubt you'll be able to deny it in 20 years ... But who knows... You still believe there were WMD's in Iraq ... Guantanamo is fair ...

Muddy spent a lot of time denying torture and never mentionned the fact that prisonners were physically harmed, as specified in the judgement and sentenced.
This was not only "embarassing" you don't get 10 years on embarassing people.
Glad to see sky that you would have like to see more higher ups convinced.

Posted by DF at January 26, 2005 06:09 AM

Actually, cwilli, DF....I know this isn't the point of this thread but I want to clear something up.

As far as the "flat earth" thing....the 6th century was about the earliest that a "round earth map" appeard. It wasn't until the 19th century that Washington Irving and a Frenchman by the name of Antoine-Jean Letronne brought about the notion that medieval people believed that "flat earth" theory.

http://id-www.ucsb.edu/fscf/library/RUSSELL/FlatEarth.html

There was another link I had but lost it.

Ok...enough about being petty on my part.

As far as Guantanamo goes. I believe we *did* free a few of them and now they are being held in Briton. Poor terror suspects....they just *can't* catch a break.

Posted by mrs. m at January 26, 2005 08:28 AM

we've freed MANY of them and most of the ones we've freed have shown up dead on battlefields in afghanistan and IRaq or have been busted for some other plots, so this innocent person thing is crap.

Posted by skywalker at January 26, 2005 10:02 AM

"we've freed MANY of them...so this innocent person thing is crap."

*Gasp* Say it ain't so!

Posted by mrs. m at January 26, 2005 10:34 AM

1 the britons released by the US authories so far have all been released subsequently by the british authorities as they have comitted no crime according to british law. THe last ones are being interrogated by the british police currently and should be released soon. They plan to sue the USA for mistreatment.

2 if the people released by the US authorities were not innocent, then why did you release them ?

3 showing up on a battle field is not a crime. If these people are fighters, then genova convention applies. If they are terrorists they should be prosecuted according to iraki or afganhi law which does allow death penalty by the way.

About the earth thing.
I knew about pythagoras.
However ...
Most of the ineducated people believed that the earth was flat. And the church took no care to correct this understanding, not that it did matter a lot anyway at the time given the speed of travel.

The pope did threaton to excommuniate galileo. IT was not because he said that the earth was round, but because he said the earth rotated around the sun.
This element was not admitted in the greek history. (the church used the solar system of Ptolemeus.)It was seen as impossible that the earth moved.
I think that's usually what people refer to, when they incorrectly mention "flat earth".
The real point in debate was in fact about wether the earth rotates around the sun or the opposite.
Darwin theory is another example (man having common ancestors with all form of life, some still believe the earth was created in 7 days).
Tectonic movements is another scientific revolution(discovered in 1960's).


Posted by DF at January 27, 2005 12:32 PM

"3 showing up on a battle field is not a crime."

Once again, you're missing the point.

"The pope did threaton to excommuniate galileo. IT was not because he said that the earth was round, but because he said the earth rotated around the sun."

yes, I watched a special about galileo's life about a year ago. The reasons they gave for the Pope believing the way they did was because in the Bible when Joshua, along with the rest of the Isrealits, fought against the Amorites and Joshua prayed that God would allow the Sun and the moon to stand still and God allowed daylight for a full day instead of allowing night to naturally set in. Out of that verse, some church leaders took that to mean that the Sun revolved around the earth. (Joshua was probably praying based upon his *own* misunderstanding of how he thought the Sun and the earth functioned but since that was not the point of the prayer anyway, God was just answering the main point of the prayer...to allow daylight to stay until the battle was fought.).

"...some still believe the earth was created in 7 days)."

Well, that's *almost* right. God created the earth in *6* days and *rested* on the 7th day. It was as an example for how He wanted us to live. To work throughout the week but to allow One day of rest and reflection. I mean, He's *God*...He doesn't *need* rest so yes, I do believe it was His example for us. Yes, I know you don't believe that way but just thought I'd share anyhow.

Then again, Mankind was God's last creation before He rested so maybe the reason behind it was because He looked ahead in time and saw how much grief we were all going to give Him and He thought, "Oh, dear Me!" and realized as our Father that He needed to take a break while He still had a moment to Himself.:-D Hey, that's just the humorous way my mind works sometimes.

Anyway....back to the subject at hand. Sorry to everyone for straying. It's just been that kind of a day for me.

Posted by mrs. m at January 27, 2005 04:23 PM

I can't access to the forum. I may have erased my password in the computer's memory... I have no time to test all the ones I tend to use. Nor to ask for it to be sent.
so here's a post you might like

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51007-2005Jan31.html

Federal judge said the military trials in the guantanamo case were illegal, unconstitutional.
Another federal judge said exactly the opposite 10 days ago.
Hopefully it will reach the supreme court. And sooner or later guantanamo and the "ennemy combattant" concept will be exposed as the big lies they are.
That some could believe they were fair decisions is a shame.

Posted by DF at February 1, 2005 05:01 AM

I can't access to the forum. I may have erased my password in the computer's memory... I have no time to test all the ones I tend to use. Nor to ask for it to be sent.
so here's a post you might like

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51007-2005Jan31.html

Federal judge said the military trials in the guantanamo case were illegal, unconstitutional.
Another federal judge said exactly the opposite 10 days ago.
Hopefully it will reach the supreme court. And sooner or later guantanamo and the "ennemy combattant" concept will be exposed as the big lies they are.
That some could believe they were fair decisions is a shame.

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